Curse

Darkside · Feb 19, 2008, 04:22 AM // 04:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbobusa

I already explained why I thought lyssa was sub-part to me. I can understand why people like it but it's too random for me.

Only someone completely ignorant to dervish's would write something that stupid. If something wants to kill you they have to use their skills to do it and as soon as they do wam bam thanks for coming.

Sirius-NZ · Feb 19, 2008, 07:20 AM // 07:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbobusa

Melandru allows more flexibility but comparing both spikewise,i'd say the AoB spike hits harder, and is harder to prot.

Hits harder why? Is harder to prot why? AoB doesn't rend. It doesn't add damage. It doesn't bypass blocking either. All it really does is converts your damage to holy, which is more useful than Melandru's earth against about three or four types of inscriptions that nobody runs anyway (earthbound, the ele warrior one, any earth ele ones if they exist, and tormentor's).

I really don't see where you're getting this from.

Furthermore, the +40-odd damage from Lyssa is actually pretty significant when you apply it repeatedly. If you spike someone with pious, mystic and eremite's in succession, that's an extra 120 damage which could very well kill them. You'd be lucky to get a quarter of that simply by converting it to holy (and for the record, the bonus damage from Lyssa is not reduced by armor).

This is why Avatar of Lyssa is pretty much the best Dervish build in the game for spiking. The reason it doesn't get used much is because it's still relatively easy to shut down, whereas you pretty much need hexes to stop a Melandru build. Avatar of Balthazar, however, does not address any of the problems of Lyssa except survivability against being spiked by an Assassin or something, which there are better solutions to anyway. (The lack of an innate speed boost with Lyssa is not a problem, since the Dervish and Warrior lines have so many speed boosts anyway.)

Bassu · Feb 19, 2008, 07:20 AM // 07:20

I don't even see the point of this discussion and argument.
GW is a situational game, meaning sometimes one avatar will have advantage over another, while in the other situation tides may turn.

AoB sees a lot of DECENT use lately and even though I'm not a big fan of it I must admit that when it comes to RA I mainly choose this particular avatar, because additional armor kindda saves me the self-healing/prot slot.
Add mending touch and you become an important and efficient team member.
When it comes to more advanced PvP like GvG or TA this build also has some uses. Even in TA people more often tend to "lf balth derv" seeing how efficent this bar can be while played by a good player.
But I still prefer Grenth/Tree though.

Of course in PvE AoB is stil shit.

Turbobusa · Feb 19, 2008, 09:07 AM // 09:07

AoB's pious spike is harder to prot because of these two. I've never see a desenchant on a melandru bar.
I also already said that I knew holy damage doesn't add any damage nor ignore armor. But it bypass most of the passive defense.

I still don't see the point of lyssa when it forces you to wait for a skill to activate to trigger any effect from your elite. I don't often see people activate long cast skill (1+ sec) when spiked by a lyssa dervish. I see mobs do it yeah.

Bassu said it, it's decent, compared to melandru it's less useful, then when it comes to grenth/lyssa/balths it's a matter of preference. My original point was that AoB isn't complete trash with the right build i.e. when you don't need your elite to be effective, not that AoB is the new melandru and that everyone should take it. There isn't just black and white people, and concerning AoB, I'm gray.

Sirius-NZ · Feb 19, 2008, 09:58 AM // 09:58

You don't have to wait for skills with Lyssa. You can attack normally anyway, it just won't trigger the damage bonus. The fact is, though, most targets will usually be activating skills in PvE or PvP, so it will still work. As stated above, even attack skills qualify.

Also, you can put disenchants on a Melandru bar if you feel like it. It doesn't use up any more slots by itself than Balthazar does.

isamu kurosawa · Feb 19, 2008, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbobusa

I still don't see the point of lyssa when it forces you to wait for a skill to activate to trigger any effect from your elite. I don't often see people activate long cast skill (1+ sec) when spiked by a lyssa dervish. I see mobs do it yeah.

If your target isn't activating any skills they are not a threat anyway. Just swap Targets. The attack skills you will be using on a lyssa bar don't exactly have a long recharge either.

Whiskeyjack · Feb 19, 2008, 01:44 PM // 13:44

I would normally agree with those arguing that AoB is trash, however its ok in the chilling/pious bar. Personally i would never run it over melandru, but i can see why some people play it. I have seen a couple of guilds run it on observer and they used it with deaths charge to teleport inside bases and clean out NPC's, i assume they used AoB in this build for it's durability while having to extend beyond healing range.
Just to be clear, I am not saying AoB is good, only that in this particular build its not that bad, though i would still take melandru over it any day.

Pyro maniac · Feb 19, 2008, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Lyssa is only nice in low-end PvP
AoB becomes better when doing high-end PvP

still prefer grenth over balthazar, however with the bars popping up lately I don't mind if someone is running balthazar. The buffs are just great and unremovable. Even a warrior can't have both an IAS and speed buff at the same time (at least not until Windborne Speed becomes good)

Sir Pandra Pierva · Feb 19, 2008, 06:00 PM // 18:00

actually in higher end pvp I have been seeing a huge inscrease of lyssa dervishs being called for

Bassu · Feb 19, 2008, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Actually, today I saw on observer as dR run 2 AoM dervishes - both with chilling+pious combo, with AI and grenth's aura. Doh?

Sir Pandra Pierva · Feb 19, 2008, 08:40 PM // 20:40

not really the immunity to conidtions is still ownage and the plus health helps to boost chilling.
the interesting this is that i found out with the lyssa build you dont need attackers insight to hit the chain a couple of times.

and even running a zelous scythe i gain enough energy to re spike when it all recharges.

~ Dan ~ · Feb 19, 2008, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassu

Actually, today I saw on observer as dR run 2 AoM dervishes - both with chilling+pious combo, with AI and grenth's aura. Doh?

Wow, using pious instead of wearying with the tree?

lolol

moko · Feb 19, 2008, 09:43 PM // 21:43

cause this is due to removing enchantments when you need to.

lolol?

please start thinking before posting -- i'm sick of all this crap in here.

Sirius-NZ · Feb 19, 2008, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whiskeyjack

I have seen a couple of guilds run it on observer and they used it with deaths charge to teleport inside bases and clean out NPC's, i assume they used AoB in this build for it's durability while having to extend beyond healing range.

OK, yeah, if you're going to start soloing NPCs without support then AoB does have a point. Mystic regen + conviction would probably still be better if you could spare the bar space, though - and at the end of the day you'd probably still need some kind of self-healing even with AoB.

Darkside · Feb 19, 2008, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

Wow, using pious instead of wearying with the tree?

lolol

That makes a lot of sense...

Hundbert · Feb 20, 2008, 09:06 AM // 09:06

Lax beat uF in the tour on observer mode now with avatars of balthazar. It only took 6 minutes. It looks like this build needs a nerf.

Sirius-NZ · Feb 20, 2008, 09:55 AM // 09:55

I can't quite work out whether that's sarcastic or not. If I knew much about the two guilds in question I might have better luck.

Still, if AoB were nerfed ... I don't really want to think about that.

xDusT II · Feb 20, 2008, 10:07 AM // 10:07

There is absolutely nothing wrong with AoB. The 2 skills in question are Pious Assault and Grenth's Aura, and I honestly don't have much of an opinion on either.

Whiskeyjack · Feb 20, 2008, 10:27 AM // 10:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius-NZ

OK, yeah, if you're going to start soloing NPCs without support then AoB does have a point. Mystic regen + conviction would probably still be better if you could spare the bar space, though - and at the end of the day you'd probably still need some kind of self-healing even with AoB.

Well as you say the Piois bar is very cramped so their is no way to fit in mystic+conviction and thats aside from the fact that both those skills requitre you to spec a crap attribute line. Also their is no self heal in the bar, their is actually a game in observer at the moment (i think its lax vs CE) where they run two AoB dervishes if you want to see it in action.

Agreed with xDust, the problem is definitley with grenths aura/pious. This combo feels more powerful than it should be imo.

Turbobusa · Feb 20, 2008, 10:51 AM // 10:51

The disenchant part is powerful but grenth's aura isn't the only spell that works like that. Intimidating aura could be used even tho it has 20s recharge, and as you already use chilling victory which has the same condition to trigger, it isn't much a problem...

Nerfing grenth's aura wouldn't do much imo.